Talk:Shadow Company
Untitled Who removed the pictures from this article? Can someone un-do it? This, please. Someone put the pictures back. Not USSOCOM IMO Shadow Company is NOT USSOCOM. The patch under the US flag is of a spade, and not a spear like in the USSOCOM Seal... CujoTwoOne 08:39, November 29, 2009 (UTC) :It's very close though. Not hard to see how it can be thought of one or the other. --XavierGTR 08:17, December 2, 2009 (UTC) Even though they don’t carry the USSOCOM insignia, that doesn’t mean they are PVCs either. Just look at their equipment (Black Hawks, Mini Birds, Pawe Lows etc), US flag patches and the fact that they are taking orders directly from a US Lt.General. IMO they are handpicked from the US military and the spade patch could also be reference to other US military unit, as there are several that use the spade in their unit insignia. Their mercenaries... simple as that. The fact that they're using civilian cars as opposed to proper military vehicles says to me they're not USSOCOM. Maybe they're government affiliated, but I would think those armored cars are used only by mercenaries and agencies like CIA Special Activities Division. OmgHAX! 22:18, January 17, 2010 (UTC) These transcripts may make it easier to draw conclusions. They are taken from a battlechatter sound folder, under sc/burst. I forget which IWD file I got them from. SC1_1 - HQ_1 Six Oxide, this is Disciple Six, We're in the Crow's Nest two klicks north of Home Plate. We've got two Victors moving along one of our restricted perimeter roadways. Requesting permission to engage with the '50. Over. Oxide Disciple Six, what's the grid on those CV's? Over. Six Oxide, they're about to cross into Grid Two-Six-Niner-One-Five-Five-Four-Two-Niner and moving on road Three-Nine-Five-GPH. Over. Oxide Copy that, Disciple Six. We've confirmed that the targets are moving to a restricted zone. Standby for clearance. Six Roger Oxide, we're ready to rock. Just give us the word, standing by. Oxide Disciple Six, you're not cleared to engage. I repeat, do not engage. Gold Eagle wants the make and model on those Charlie Victors. Over. Six Uh, copy that, Oxide. We've got, uh, two black, light-brown Mercedes G-class trucks, and they look to be at least partially hardened against small-arms fire. Won't reduce the opportunity of our weapons system. Over. Oxide Disciple Six, you're clear to engage. Get your SICs ready, Gold Eagle wants visual confirmation over the 'Net. We'll be sending an RQ4 on your way to slingshot the transfer. Expect it, ETA 2-2-0 Mikes. Six Roger that Oxide, but there won't be much left to look at, Disciple Six engaging. Out. ---- SC1_8 - HQ_8 One Disciple One to Oxide? Come in Oxide, do you read us? Over. Oxide Oxide reads you, Disciple One. We've got your signal now. Over. One Oxide, we're continuing our recon sweep of the area due North of Home Plate. Maintaining visual contact with three civilians outside our perimeter inside 'Gold Dust' and North of the waterfall, how copy? Over. Oxide Solid Copy, Disciple One. Stay perched in Overwatch. You're authorized to send rounds downrange if you see those civilians dropping IEDs on the roadway. Maintain readiness. Over. One Roger that Oxide, we're locked and loaded. Disciple One out. ---- SC2_2 - SC3_2 One Mongoose Two, Disciple One here, how copy? Over. Two Disciple One, Mongoose Two reads you, go ahead. One Mongoose Two, uh... Interrogative: Are you still assigned to Overwatch activities in MSR-Bravo? Over. Two Disciple One, Mongoose Two. Uh, that's affirmative. However, we're checking out some activity west of that zone. Break. Got a section of the ED fence out of commission over here. Over. One Mongoose Two, uh, we are currently engaged in CYA operations at MSR-Bravo. Interrogative: Uh, what's your deviation timeline? Over. Two Heh. We read you, Disciple One. We're looking at about Two-Five Mikes, but we're on the hump already. Gonna owe you one. One Roger that, Mongoose Two, we'll maintain readiness until visual contact is established. Now get your ass back here. Out. ---- SC2_4 - HQ_4 Four Oxide, Disciple Four here. Over. Oxide Disciple Four, Oxide. Go ahead. Over. Four Oxide, we're posted up at Checkpoint Pinstripe. We've got a convoy of four, that is Zero-Four, uh whitebox delivery Victors requesting clearance to approach Home Plate. Break. Requesting a secure Net channel to transmit credentials: Bandwidth Three-Five-Zero-Mike-Bravos. Non-lossy burst packets over seven Sierras. Over. Oxide Solid copy, Disciple Four, standby for encryption challenge flags. Over. Four Standing by, Oxide. Over. Oxide Disciple Four, you're clear for data transmissions. Sector Three-Five-Zero over Seven aerial. Encryption key index: Seven-Niner-Julia-Bravo. Initiate handshake. Over. Four We've confirmed your key index, Oxide. Sending it. Break. Standing by for gatekeeper authorization. Over. Oxide Disciple Four, credentials have been authorized by Gold Eagle. Maintain your posture. We're sending Butcher Three to inventory and escort the convoy through to Home Plate. How copy? Over. Four Roger, Oxide. Disciple Four copies all. We'll keep 'em sweating until we see Butcher Three. Out. ---- SC2_9 - HQ_9 Oxide Oxide to Disciple Two: What's your status? Over. Two Disciple Two to Oxide: Uh, we have held up our sweep through RAZ-Zebra. We're about three Mikes behind schedule. Over. Oxide Copy that, Disciple Two. Gold Eagle wants a reason for the delay. Over. Two Oxide, we ran into a sandstorm out here. We're taking shelter in a small cave until it clears up. Over. Oxide Disciple Two, your mop suit should do the job here. Get yourself suited up and resume your patrol at an accelerated pace. Over. Two Roger Oxide, we're outfitting now. We'll be Oscar-Mike in five. Oxide You have One-Two-Zero-Mikes to resume your patrol path, Disciple Two. You're already behind schedule. Home Plate policy for docking hazard pay remains in effect. Do you copy? Two Solid copy Oxide. Uh, so if we're back early, do we get double pay? Oxide Stay frosty, Disciple Two. Cut the chatter. Oxide out. ---- SC3_6 - HQ_6 Three Oxide, this is Disciple Three. How copy? Over. Oxide Disciple Three, you're coming in weak over the coms. Use the backup frequency and try again. Over. Three Oxide, Disciple Three here. How do you read me now? Over. Oxide Oxide has you clear, go ahead. Over. Three Oxide, we have intercepted a local military Victor, about seven klicks South of DRM-Zulu. We have three - that's Zero-Three - foot-mobiles in our custody, one officer and two enlisted. Please advise. over. Oxide Disciple Three, local military is not authorized for travel through our perimeter. Interrogative: What's the status of the Victor? Over. Three Oxide, uh, I'm not sure. Looks like a UAZ left over from the Russians. It's pretty beat up. Over. OXide Disciple Three, standby for orders. Over. Three Oxide, uh, our status has changed. These guys are getting aggressive. One of them went for a concealed sidearm. Now they're talking about Euros. I thinking they actually want to bribe. Oxide Disciple Three, you are authorized to use lethal force if necessary. Maintain an aggressive posture as you escort them out of the zone on bearing Seven-Seven-Five by Six-Niner-Two. We'll be tracking with Avatar One. Over. Three Copy that, Oxide. These guys are -- Woah, WOAH, HEY! Oxide Disciple Three, do you read? Over. Three Oxide, we're status: green. Three Tangos down. Had to grease 'em. Over. Oxide Solid copy, Disciple Three. Tag the victor with an IR beacon. we're sending Avatar One to blast the zone. Recommit to your patrol zone within ten Mikes. Over. Three Disciple Three copies. We're Oscar-Mike. Out. ---- HP_3 - GC_3 Three Scaler Three to Oxide Ground. We are in the air and ready for tasking. Over. Ground Scaler Three, this is Oxide Ground. Solid copy. We're tracking you clean through Grid Seven-One-Five-Three-Eight-Niner with Net confirmation through the canyon relay. Three Oxide Ground, yep. You've got us. Over. Ground Scaler Three, be advised: Avatar Two is operating approximately Oh-Seven-Six klicks above you. They've got the AO blanketed. Break. Standby for new orders. Over. Three Solid copy, Oxide Ground. Send it. Ground Uh, Scaler Three, relocate to Grid Papa-Juliet-November. We're seeing low-grade seismic activity in the area. Go run the canyon and check it out. Over. Three Roger that, Oxide Ground. We'll be in touch. Out. ---- One Oxide, this is Carnival One. We are patrolling in the waterway East of Home Plate. Looks like we've got some heat signature leakage. How copy? Over. Oxide Carnival One, Oxide copies. Relay grid, over. One Oxide, heat signature is located at Grid Charlie-Oscar-Delta-Mike-Whiskey Five-Four-Seven-One-Niner. Three-Three meters above the water. Oxide Carnival One, we copy your grid. Send the height again. Over. One Oxide, height is Three-Three meters above the water. Repeat: Three-Three meters. Over. Oxide Solid copy, Carnival One. Three-Three meters. Standby for deviation orders. Over. One Carnival One standing by. Over. Oxide Carnival One, move to a concealed location inside your grid and unstrap your optics. we need your eyes on the thermal leak until we can verify that it's visible to Sat-Recon. Maintain readiness and keep us posted. How copy? Over. One Good copy, Oxide. Carnival One out. ---- Three Oxide, Carnival Three here. We're currently verifying the new stock of Zodiak RHIBs, and we've got a problem here. Over. Oxide Carnival Three, this is Oxide. Describe the nature of the problem. Over. Three Uh, it looks like the strong-box was compromised in-transit, Oxide. I've got only eleven out of twenty as marked in manifest in Seven-Charlie-Alpha. Break. Two of these have significant rips to their hull and are unusable. Over. Oxide Solid copy, Carnival Three. Finish your inventory and double check that all functional RHIBs are patrol-ready. How copy? Over. Three Roger Oxide. ETC: Two hours. Repeat: Zero-Two Hotels. Carnival Three out. Keystone Early "shadow company" model Those are not early versions of shadow company men, those are meant to be Makarov's higher ups. Obviously, IW replaced them with generic ultra-nationalist character models at some point in development. They're positioned in the same spot where the ultra-nationalists would normally appear in "The Enemy of my Enemy". In one of the early trailers, the one pictured in the gallery can be seen scoring a kill on shadow company trooper. ShortRoundMcFly 19:21, December 5, 2009 (UTC) For the record... - A Pickup truck without an MG is not a Technical (see Technical definition). - Shadow Company does not use MG4s and those you find in "Just Like Old Times" are not dropped by any enemies, but are just lying around. The only machine gunners you face in this level (on the catwalk) use RPDs, which they oddly will not drop when they are killed By member USSOCOM 25/12/2009 :I find it hard to imagine that NATO-caliber machine guns were just simply laying around there when SC moved in. Ghost Leader 04:49, January 12, 2010 (UTC) I agree. Come on, do you think those MG4s just appeared by magic or something? Oh, yes, that must be it. And yes, I am being sarcastic. Sgt. S.S. 20:16, April 3, 2010 (UTC) Vinson and Lambert When you enter the cave you can hear Shadow company talking about comm problems and stuff and one of them says he'll send Vinson and Lambert shouldn't there be a page for these guys? There's pages for pretty much every TF141 character why not some Shadow Company? :Well, I don't remember actually seeing either of those guys, and aside from them being mentioned briefly in the comms section they aren't mentioned anywhere else. I think that some of the TF141 operators play a more important role than a couple of guys mentioned in a radio broadcast. --XavierGTR 10:27, March 2, 2010 (UTC) Shadow Company pawns? Where exactly did it come from that Shepherd lied to Shadow Company and Shadow Company weren't aware of Shepherd's actions? Nothing of the sort is mentioned in-game and ,TBH, it sounds to me like original research or someone's way of turning the level's bad guys into "misguided good guys". Ghost Leader 04:49, January 12, 2010 (UTC) Any reason we can't play as these guys???? We already have OpFor and Spetsnaz, which are two of the three campaign bad guys. I wonder why there isn't a map where one side is either OpFor or Spetsnaz and the other is Shadow Company. Sometimes I'd rather it be those guys than TF141 or the Rangers (IE the map Afghan). --XavierGTR 11:51, February 16, 2010 (UTC) Why the need to undo revision? Hello, I made a minor edit to the second paragraph some time-ago that stated that Shepard appeared to not hold the lives of the Shadow Company in very high regard, from explicitly stating that he absolutely has no concern for their lives. While Shepard's ordering of a artillery strike would indicate this, one shouldn't take even this and immediately assume the worse. He does radio in to warn them, and tells them about how they served their country well (whether he was earnest about it or not, we don't really don't know). He may have genuinely believed that those soldiers were dead anyway with Soap and Price shooting through their base and all, and that this was the only way to 'contain' them. This kinda ambiguity is why we should keep from making such concrete statements without hard evidence to back it up. That being said, I may have missed something, and if so please correct me, but from where I stand I don't think it was the right thing to do. -- 11:26 , Febuary 29, 2010. (EST) Who's Carnival? I was looking at the members list and saw someone named Carnival? Who is he? 10:23, March 21, 2010 (UTC) They're one of the SC units, sometimes mentioned over radio chatter. Sgt. S.S. 20:18, April 3, 2010 (UTC) : Carnival is one of the gound units in Shadow Company along side Butcher and Disciple (B,C,D). Men from Carnival can be heard on the un-subtitled radio traffic in the missions The enemy of my enemy and Just like old times. Factions I would like to point out that this isnt the only faction that isn't in multiplayer. there is CIA and FSB as well, or at least just CIA Sniper Luigi 15:13, July 29, 2010 (UTC) :The CIA isn't a faction per se in the game, since Allen is the only CIA agent ever mentioned or shown. Presumably there are others working with 141, but they don't seem to play any part in the game. Ghost Leader 05:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC) Question? Hello, I have a question. Whenever I make legitamate edits, and sometimes even things I have seen with my own eyes in the game, someone keeps deleting what I am posting? For instance I said something about how some of Shadow Company could have been the surviving Marines from Al-Asads nuke, and how Juggenauts have been rarley know to carry RPDs (They do sometimes!) and aparently some disgruntled editior (no offense) keeps deleting it when I have seen much dumber claims on this site than those two statements I made. Help? : As you stated above, "I said something about how some of Shadow Company '''could' have been the surviving Marines from Al-Asads nuke..." In this Wiki, we don't allow speculation, there's no proof that they are survivors. And why are you talking about Juggernauts on a Shadow Company page?! Also, sign your posts. : 'Munchable901|TaLk?' 16:24, July 30, 2010 (UTC) : First of All, no one could have survived the crazy desert eagle guy's nuke. Second, why does it matter whether juggernauts carry RPDs, M240s, MG4s, L86s, or whatever? Kingtiger13123 (talk) 12:44, August 19, 2012 (UTC) Sorry. Lol I guess I should read the rules better, I apologize.Kingfanboi 16:28, July 30, 2010 (UTC) Betraying their country? Where does it say anywhere that Shadow Company betrayed their country? They were probably just an elite division of the U.S. military that Shepherd requested with his blank check. Basically they were probably just doing their orders. I mean Shepherd probably lied to them and told them that he had orders to kil TF-141.Kingfanboi 20:51, August 7, 2010 (UTC) :It appears that Shadow Company is a private military company as they are called "Tangos" by Price. The word, "Tango," refers to non-government associates or terrorists. For example, the Ultranationalists are "tangos" as it's a separate organization and operates independently from the government. - Kenny99 05:17, August 25, 2010 (UTC) : :'Here's my 2 cents''' :' ' :Well as far as Price is concerned the whole U.S. military could be considered a Tango. Most of TF-141 seemed to be from the UK with a few Americans mixed in. Couple that with the fact that most countries (Even America's west-European Allies.) have been upset with America because the Invasion of Iraq, and the fact it would be easier to use real troops with the blank check, as I said Shepherd could have lied to them. (History is filled with liars.) It is ironic when you think about it, since Shepherd is basically a U.S. version of Zakhaev/Makarov. Its kind of a subliminal Anti-U.S. involment in the Middle-East message when you think about it. A little of topic, but at the beginning off the game U.S. troops are hooting and hollaring with joy about the destroyed terroirist building saying: "It was like an action movie dude!!!" After one said: "Isn't this a little dangerous for the task force?" "Another laughed: "Ah since when does Shepherd care about danger close." Fast forward a few days and a whole company of U.S. troops are hit by Shepherds "accidental" friendly-fire. Price mumers with dismay: "Since when does Shepherd care about danger close?" Not laughing now! But I digress way of topic. Bottom line makes more since to be official U.S. troops considering they were in a U.S. base, and that they used top off the line equipment, clothing, and viehcles. (Save the technicals, which was propably a error in programing, since Makrov's men were using U.S. Humvees.) Kingfanboi 21:26, September 14, 2010 (UTC) A couple of things. One, do they not use any sniper rifles at all? There aren't any listed in the weapons section. Second, regarding one particular trivia bit, how does one tell whether someone's grunting with a Russian accent? Perhaps I should delete this. Oorah!: Thomp .45 14:31, August 18, 2010 (UTC) They use the WA2000, if thats what you are asking. A Lonely Nomad 14:36, August 18, 2010 (UTC) here's what i think shadow company is a PMC that sheperd took over earlier shadow company is probaly is a special divsion of the miltary that sheperd,with the power of his blank check sent to the boneyard Looks like a mod or a Garys mod to me. And please sign your posts.Sniperteam82308 20:14, January 6, 2011 (UTC) to kill Opfor Blackwater Does anyone else think this is a reference to the Private Military Contractor Blackwater? The are hired both hired by a powerful figure (Bush, Shepherd) and they both have a bit of controversy around them. 07:41, January 14, 2011 (UTC) Sure, but everybody knows that Blackwater exist, whereas I doubt the public has any information pertaining to an elite black-ops group that regularly executes treason in the name of the General of a large percentage of the American Armed Forces. Best leave it out of the trivia for now. Captain tweed 14:37, February 19, 2011 (UTC) I doubt that SC is a PMC. Just saying CoaZTalk 01:50, March 25, 2011 (UTC) What happened to them? Were they disbanded or something? MW3 who would of liked shadow company instead of miltai in mutliplayer Would be nice, but they don't have any specific enemy like the other factions. Ruler Of The Wastes 04:53, December 31, 2011 (UTC) They have Task Force 141 and the Inner Circle. --Ebon Shadowshot (Talk) ( ) 23:49, August 18, 2012 (UTC) Lethal Weapon reference Could Shadow Company be a reference to Lethal Weapon. At the beginning of the movie, Murtagh is talking to his Vietnam War friend when investigating his (Michael Hunsaker's) daughter's suicide. Hunsaker mention he was part of a mercenary team called Shadow Company. Might be a bit of a stretch, but it does fit MW2's Shadow Company. Both are mercenaries (Makes more since for MW2's SC to be mercenaries/PMC). What do you guys think? - User:11Morey December 3, 2011 2:49 PM (EST) Shadow Company is a nic-name for mercenary PMCs. But Shadow Company was a part of the US Armed Forces, and not guns for hire.Sgt Sprinkles (talk) 22:26, August 20, 2012 (UTC) Competence? Is it me or does Shadow Company seem rather icompetent. There's all the fuss about how they're really well trained and highly dangerous but how can a unit of that caliber almost get completely wiped out by two men (Soap and Price? 17:06, January 16, 2012 (UTC) Shadow Company is not a Black ops Unit Despite what the page may say, Shadow Company is NOT a Black Ops unit. A Black Ops unit would use more USA equipment. The Rangers and TF141 do not use the MG4, P90, RPD, Vector, WA2000, Dogs, Riot Shields, AA-12, SPAS-12, G18, or the Mini-Uzi. Also, since a black ops unit would be part of the US military, Shepherd could not have set off explosives in Hotel Bravo, or have killed dozens in an arty strike without being tried in a military court. They seem to work only for Shepherd, as he says "If you're inside your service will be honored". Note that he does not mention the US in his sentance. Kingtiger13123 (talk) 22:06, August 18, 2012 (UTC) "Black Ops" refers specifically to operations carried out off the books and with plausible deniability, and not all units carrying out Black Operations are military. The CIA's Special Activities Division springs to mind here. There is no requirement that such a unit use American equipment. Shadow Company is such a unit, a unit which Shepherd uses do his dirty work. 22:15, August 18, 2012 (UTC) This is True, but the person who wrote the trivia didn't know. I still have the arguement that Shepherd does not say something like "If you're still inside, I am sorry and you will be honored in service of your country" Kingtiger13123 (talk) 22:18, August 18, 2012 (UTC) Shadow Company is most likely a special forces unit and not a private military contractor, they are a sister group to Task Force 141. In Soap's journal he stated the "Shadow Company is a different breed. No more vodka-drunk Ultranationalists. They're trained like we are." this implies that the are a special forces unit just like Task Force 141 and not a private military contractors they are selected just like Task force 141 and have the same training as them. dwaters1990 (talk) 1:44 p.m. PST February 27, 2017 :"They're trained like we are" doesn't imply anything, other than that SC is well trained. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 22:34, February 27, 2017 (UTC) :Soap is clearly stating that Shadow Company is a another special operations task force created by Shepard and not a private organization. dwaters1990 (talk) No Multiplayer? I had really hoped Shadow Company, my favorite faction (sorry, I just like the name and their outfits) would be in multiplayer. But they weren't. I know this was brought up before with the reason being the lack of enemies. If there were Shadow Company maps, they could be against TF141 or even the Inner Circle. Star Wars Reference? Just saying, Shadow Company is probably a reference tp the Storm Troopers/Clones Troopers from Star Wars 3 Revenge of the Sith. Both are considered elite forces (not true for either of them.) and they both use the most up to date qweapons and veichles. Both are commanded by powerful corrupt leapders, (Emoperor Palpatine, General Shepherd)., and They both betray a group of special warriors they were meant to protect (the Jedi, TF141), and they did this to make sure their leader's agenda was accomplished (Desroy the droids, and Destroyh Makarov) Kingtiger13123 (talk) 01:40, August 20, 2012 (UTC) :Well, Shepherd was trying to kill everyone who was involved in his plan. He used Task Force 141 to retrieve Makarov's Playback (which likely also implicated Shpeherd behind everything), and then killed the operatives who recovered it. Since he knew this would result in TF 141 calling for help, he went a step further, ordering all of the organization to be purged. :As far as Palpatine, he had Count Dooku set up the entire war, so that Palpatine would be granted emergency powers, and effectively unquestioned control of the republic. Once the droids were at the breaking point, and Mace Windu had already become aware of the fact that Palpatine was the sith lord they had been searching for a thousand years, Palpatine killed him, and made Anakin his new apprentice. He went a step further, issuing a secret order, Order 66, since he knew the Jedi would attempt to stop him, and if he killed all the Jedi, there would be no one left to stop him from changing the Republic into an Empire. 03:29, August 20, 2012 (UTC) I actually compared Shadow Company to Halo 2 more than Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith. Task Force 141 (the Elites) and 'murica (the Brutes) exist together and fight alongside one another, however Shephard (Truth) wants to be rid of TF141 because it's very likely information putting Shephard in a bad position (The Great Journey being a lie) will be revealed, so he makes TF141 do a mission for him (Quarantine Zone) before getting Shadow Company (the Brutes) to betray them and hunt them down. TF141 breaks away from their friendly relationship with America and promptly return to go at war with the Brutes, with assistance from the Inner Circle (the UNSC/Humanity from Halo). --Ebon Shadowshot (Talk) ( ) 22:23, August 20, 2012 (UTC) Shadow Company NOT a black ops unit So with all of the discussion of Shadow Company, I'm genuinely surprised to hear how many think it's something other than a PMC. So I will my evidence for why it is definitely not a black ops unit, and almost certainly not a military unit at all. 1. They are wearing unit patches and American flag patches. Why on Earth would a black ops unit do that? If the whole point is plausible deniability as others have pointed out, why would you make the organization look so similar to an SOF unit, complete with insignia? To say nothing of the fact that Shepard probably would not be physically present giving them orders if plausible deniability was a concern. Furthermore, they were stopping vehicles and people trying to pass by their territory, which means they were in an area where they were being seen, yet were they were not killing or capturing everyone on sight. A well equipped American organization that large, wearing identifying insignia, would be immediately presumed as the US military my most people. The only other plausible explanation would be a PMC, which means if Shadow Company is not a PMC, they are definitely posing as one. Plus, a PMC as good as Shadow Company could provide much the same benefit as a black ops unit to Shepard- maybe even more. They aren't subject to military command and thus take orders from Shepard directly without having to worry about anyone else knowing about what they do or stopping it. They are a civilian force operating in a foreign country, which means it is going to be difficult as hell to prosecute them for any crimes. And their only loyalty is to the contract. 2. They had basically the whole of the HQ slaughtered by two guys. Now, I know Call of Duty tends to make you the player (and the SAS) into supermen. But two guys killing scores if not more of American SOF operators? That crosses the rather thick line of suspension of disbelief. Infinity Ward wasn't this stupid. People are speculating that they were SOF based on their irregular equipment (which I will cover in moment) and Price's line that they weren't "vodka drunk ultranationalists" and they were "trained like we are". But this could simply mean that they were trained by a first world, Western military as opposed to squatting gopniks and ex-conscripts. It may have just meant that they were professionals. Of course, a PMCs employ a disproportionately high number of former SOF, so some of them may have indeed been elite, but likely only a fraction. 3. Their uniforms are black. And they are standardized that way, as in they all wear that. Black fatigues haven't really been a thing in the US military since the 80's. It's terrible as a camo, nor does make you inconspicuous. In the US, it is primarily used by law enforcement, and even they are switching to military camouflage for their tactical units. But a PMC makes their own dress code, and we have seen use of black, likely for the intimidation factor. In fact, their equipment seems very much like a PMC. They do make use of some vehicles from the US military inventory, but these could either be surplus or a reflection of the fact that the developers didn't want to make a whole bunch of new models and animations when they didn't have to. We do see them make use of special SUVs and civilian trucks/technicals. PMCs use these in real life. 4. We hear discussions about hazard pay and double pay. Hazard pay exists in military, but it refers to things like air crew duties, handling ordnance, etc. It is NOT the same as combat pay. I think the inclusion of these guys talking about pay (we never hear anyone else in COD talk about it, yet these guys mention it multiple times) is meant to be a nod to their status as contractors. 5. Infinity Ward, or perhaps their publisher, are very smart about marketing. They know that having you kill a whole bunch of American soldiers in multiple missions is not something that the COD audience might be as receptive to. Especially the lucrative American audience. Not to mention, Shadow Company is depicted as doing some evil shit. Again: why demonize a respected community when you can pin it on one ultranationalist madman (Shepard)? For this reason, they would almost certainly choose a PMC (the classic, cheap bad guys anyone can use that have no political affiliation, won't offend anyone, and are inherently understood as morally ambiguous at best and greedy killers at worst) rather than the respected American SOF community. At the very least, they would make them intentionally ambiguous. I think they gave us enough signs (as I have mentioned above) to evoke a sense of elite guys while reassuring us that we are not casually killing US operators by the score, and are instead killing mercenaries. Anyway, regardless of who we are, I think we can all agree that Shadow Company was a cool faction and it's a damn shame that we didn't get to see more of them.Pvt sleepy (talk) 13:20, May 26, 2017 (UTC) "PMC" Argument Speculation aside, there is no concrete evidence that Shadow Company is/ever was a PMC unit. All we know for certain is that they were an elite military unit under the command of Shepherd, just as TF 141 was. Like a post above of noted, this Wiki is about providing accurate information, not guesses that fit our subjective sense of what we want something to be. Until Infiinty Ward or some other affiliate identifies Shadow Company as a PMC unit, we simply have no idea, and the Wiki should reflect that accordingly. 16:29, November 7, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500 :It's never stated that they're mandated either. And they bear nothing on them to signify that they're not a PMC. The sheer fact they're named would mean that they answer to Shepherd and not any form of government, thus making them a PMC. 20:06, November 7, 2017 (UTC) :: Okay... what about TF 141 then? Did they answer to Shepherd? Yup. Were they "named"? You bet. Did they have their own special insignia? Yup again. Now, are they a PMC unit? Nope, so how can we use any of those pieces of evidence to suggest that Shadow Company is? (And how do we know for a fact that Shadow Company doesn't answer to government?) ::Now, I'm not saying that there's no chance they can't be a PMC, but any of the points you listed can be countered with the structure of TF 141. It seems like a lot of the "authority" commentators on here want them to be a PMC, but, like we've just discussed, there's really no way to know, and I think the Wiki should reflect that. Again, Shadow Company can't be whatever you want it to be just because you want it to be so '- there needs to be some sort of story confirmation (or, at the very least, strong supporting evidence that can't be applied to any of the other units in the game). Even the "headshots pay double" line we hear in the radio files is far too loose for a PMC interpretation. ::Elvis2500 (talk) 21:11, November 7, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500 ::Actually, it is stated that TF 141 is a branch of the military. As it points out at one point how they get their recruits, as well as the fact that they report in to other branches of the military. I mean, you're having a go at us for claiming "'just because you want it to be so '", but your argument is just as strong. Shadow Company is never seen doing anything that would fit the ideas of a mandated force, otherwise we likely would of seen them during the starting levels. They don't get involved until Shepherd starts betraying TF141, and at that point you can't really trust to be around people that are loyal to their country/government because you risk someone reporting what you're doing. They're loyal to Shepherd and his betrayal, which isn't something a regular combat group would really do. The way they act, how they're used and so on make them out more to be a PMC than anything else. 22:18, November 7, 2017 (UTC) ::Also. You keep reverting the edit to add what you believe despite being old to take it to the talk page. And even though you have someone actively refuting your debate, you're still ignoring those warnings. As such I need to warn you there is a fine line between wiki betterment and trying to force what ''you think on to the pages. The page has since been locked, but not going though with due process will get you blocked for edit warring. 22:25, November 7, 2017 (UTC) ::Those posting issues aside (which I'm now aware of)... ::"You're having a go at us for claiming ''''just because you want it to be so ', but your argument is just as strong." No. Everything I've posted up to this point has come directly from the game. A lot of you guys, on the other hand, are passing speculation off as definitive fact. ::Shadow Company is a product of Shepherd's blank check, given to him by the Secretary of Defense - that's why we don't see them until the end. There's as much of a chance they could be a detachment of CIA operatives, a Black Ops unit, or Delta Force, as they could be PMC (remember, at this point the U.S. sees TF 141 as the bad guys) - the simple answer is, we don't have enough background information to accurately make a claim for any of those groups. All we know for certain is that SC is a task force assigned to Shepherd. That's the real extent of our knowledge. You're making a lot of assumptions, which is fine, but you can't pass that off as true or conclusive without a real confirmation - I just think the page should reflect that ambiguity. ::Elvis2500 (talk) 23:54, November 7, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500 :::You are aware the us government regularly employs PMCs, right? And that Shepherd's blank check came when he was still in command of TF141. :::"There's as much of a chance they could be a detachment of CIA operatives, a Black Ops unit, or Delta Force, as they could be PMC" :::Except there isn't, since why would the us government hand a general a blank check, which he would then use to build an evil liar to employ US special forces if he is already in command of a special forces unit? :::"All we know for certain is that SC is a task force assigned to Shepherd." :::You're assuming that they were assigned to him, despite there being no evidence that they were assigned to him. :::What we know is that SC only appears after Shepherd's blank check and appear to be loyal to Shepherd himself rather than a cause (i.e. finding Makarov) and are deployed by Shepherd himself (since they only appear once Shepherd wants to eliminate TF141 into areas where TF141 is currently operating out of). The signs point far more towards them being Shepherd's personal units and not units attached to any nation or coalition of nations. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 00:51, November 8, 2017 (UTC) :::Point by point: :::1. Yes, I'm aware. Thanks. :::2. So you're thinking that all that stuff is just free? The vehicles? The man-power? The weapons? The drones we hear about in the radio files? The base in Afghanistan? No. It costs money to deploy forces, regardless of where they come from, and especially so in the wake of a war. SC could very plausibly be any of the units I listed, at least until we know any better. And, why would he form another special forces unit if he's already in charge of TF141? Well, that's kind of the main plot of MW2. :::3. Did the "Ghost, this is Price, we're under attack by Shepherd's men in the Bonyeard..." line mean nothing to you? How about loyally listening to all of his commands, to the death in some instances? It's blatalntly obvious that they're assigned to Shepherd - they call him Gold Eagle for crying out loud. You even said it yourself in your fourth paragraph: "SC appears to be loyal to Shepherd himself." :::4. By the time Loose Ends rolls around, SC's mission, as we see through their actions, is to: :::A. Eliminate the "traitorous" TF 141 :::B. Find and eliminate Makarov :::What makes you think they weren't working towards those ends? Where'd you pull that from? :::Again, I still don't see how any of what you wrote concretely solidfies their status as PMCs, sorry. Your interpretation obviously is that they are, which is great, but at the end of the day, that's all you have: an interpretation. I just don't think that should constitute a definitive ruling here. :::Elvis2500 (talk) 02:28, November 8, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500 ::::But you have the same issue. You have no real concrete evidence they're mandated by a government. And more evidence in how they operate fits in more with a PMC. If we remove it, then it gives the impression they're a mandated force, which doesn't work with how they operate. 11:59, November 8, 2017 (UTC) ::::Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? You criticize the wiki for making assumption, but then assume that I think SC gets everything for free (even though I never stated nor implied that) and that their mission was to find and eliminate Makarov even though we never hear or see any evidence of such and the only time we see them engaging Makarov's forces is when they're in areas where TF141 was deployed. And I don't see how calling them "Shepherd's men" and Shepherd having the callsign of Gold Eagle is somehow proof that they were assigned to Shepherd. In fact, units being blindly loyal to the point of death would suggest that they're not simply assigned to Shepherd. Not to mention that being loyal to Shepherd himself (which you agree with) would mean that they're definitely not simply assigned to Shepherd since there's very few modern militaries where your allegiance lies with the general in charge of your unit instead of a nation. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 14:59, November 8, 2017 (UTC) ::::Where have I ever stated that they're conclusively "mandated" by the government? I'm only claiming that we can't definitively know what they are. Now, if I was going to argue ''what you said, I'd probably use the little snippet in the radio files that says they have access to the facial recognition date base at Langley, and also the fact that fighter jets flew by Site Hotel Bravo, but again, that's not my main point here. :::: "If we remove it, then it gives the impression they're a mandated force, which doesn't work with how they operate." What does this mean? How would identifying them as something like a task force imply that? You seem to think that the way they "operate" is exclusive to a PMC agency... no, no it isn't. There is no clear cut evidence to even moderatly support that claim, and as we discussed earlier, any of their signature traits (uniform, ensignia, etc) can be interpretted in a variety of different ways; there's too much ambiguity there for you to definitively state they are anything other than Shepherd's task force. The minute you start using things like "it appears...," "it seems...," or "I think...," is the minute you start putting specualation and opinion over actuality, and that's when a Wiki loses credibilty. Elvis2500 (talk) 13:00, November 8, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500 No, I'm not just arguing "for the sake iof arguing," so let's not play that game - I'm arguing because I feel the "PMC" tagline misrepresents Shadow Company's origins, as, in reality (the real reality, not your reality), we don't know what they are. And yes, you're correct that I misunderstood you the first time (I thought you were saying something along the lines of, "why would Shepherd use government forces if he got a blank check?"), but what does that have to do with making assumptions within in the context of the game? (Hint: it doesn't, so I'm not really sure why you threw that in.) The story arc between the end of Loose Ends and Endgame (and also Shepherd's overall character/agenda) really makes SC's role clear, so I don't know what to tell you there. Same exact thing with how the Gold Eagle callsign and "Shepherd's men" (in addition to other things) clearly imply that Shepherd's in command of SC - the facts are literally staring at you in the face. At the end of the day, what really makes SC a PMC agency? Well, nothing speficially. Could they be one? Yup. Could they not be one? Also yup. So can we say definitively that they're one or the other? '''No'. This is the basis of the my argument. Have to love your last part - again, you're making ''a lot ''asumptions and broad generalizations. Basically, and correct me if I'm wrong, you think that, because they're to loyal Shepherd, they must be PMCs, because no regular military unit would show that kind of devotion to their superiors? Please, man. That doesn't just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Honestly, the fact that it takes only very broad and loose interpretations of things to convince you that SC is a PMC agency, yet it requires hard, concrete evidence to pin them to Shepherd (which is literally part of the plot), tells me everyhting I need to know about where you're at with this. With that said, it really is apparent neither you, nor your mod buddy, have any intentions of discussing this with an open mind, so I think I'm done here. There's no difference between speculation and fact, right? Not on this Wiki, apparently. Elvis2500 (talk) 17:03, November 8, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500